I returned from Vernon,Texas on Wednesday 07/12/2006. and the one thing you can say about that part of Texas this time of year, is HOT, 104 degrees HOT.
My tour of the Brantly plant was much better than the weather. Everyone was very informative and really tried to answer all my questions.
Doyel Patrick acted as my tour guide. He took me through-out the Plant, a very large hanger at the local airport.
Inside the building you'll find a large open floor area containing an idle assembly line. All the machines, and jigs, are there in place, and fully operational ready to produce B2B's. There are 3 ships in various stages from bare frame, to approx. 75% equipped just waiting for the workers and the orders to fire the line up again.
The fully staffed company had about 80 employees at full production, currently there are 11, mainly trying to fill the needs of the existing customers. If my math and serial numbers are correct they have produced approx. 10 B2B's in six years. Number 10 is the ship at the end of the assembly line. Mr. Patrick advised me that this one could be completed in 90 days, pending FAA approval.
Another interesting ship on the floor was a Brantly 305. This was the 5 place unit with a wheeled landing gear, that had it been in production at the time the R44 came about, I think it could have given it a run for it's money, if a problem with the rotor blades had been resolved. But that seems to be the Brantly's story. alot of missed steps, bad timing, and bad luck.
When the tour was through I was introduced to the company president and CEO, Mr. Henry W. Yao, Mr. Yao and I had a long conversation and discovered not only were we late in becomming helicopter pilots, me at 54 and he at 72, we also both enjoyed motorcycle touring. I have found that alot of rotorwing pilots share similar interest. Unlike me, Mr. Yao is a graduate of Harvard, and I'm sure it takes all of his talents to maintain the balance that keeps the doors open. I'll discuss more on that a little later.
We then set up a time for first thing Tuesday morning for a demo flight, because I wasn't just interested in learning about the current status of Brantly, I wanted to buy one.
08:00 on Tuesday morning was perfect flying weather. The night before had produced a thunderstorm with lots of rain, the first in weeks, and the temp. was around 70 degrees. My pilot was Mr. Cy Russum who even though he had left the company awhile back, drove 50 miles to show me what the Brantly was capable of. I was not disappointed. All of my training had been in 300CB's and 300CBI's. With the exception of the rotor brake, the startup was almost identical to the CBI. Cy picked the craft up into a hover, then took it over to a flat grassy area next to the landing pads. After setting down he turned the controls over to me and I went through some pick-up's and set down's, hovering manuvers, then we took off to fly a long pattern around the airport.
Again I can report that the handeling of the Brantly is almost identical to the 300 series, except the Brantly is smoother through-out the flight, there really is no translational lift shutter, and the delay in input control is longer in the Brantly. I contribute these conditions to the main rotor design.
The ship handled well in flight and after awhile I brought it in to land back at the grassy area, again everything was very predictable, smooth, and no
susprises.
Back on the ground I met again with Mr.Yao, I told him I would be interested in purchasing the helicopter we just flew in. Over lunch with Mr. Patrick and later that afternoon by phone we just couldn't agree on the value of the aircraft. You can't go by the price of recent sales, because most of those are over 40 years old. The ship we flew in even though it had less than 90 hours on it was built in 2000 and the engine was manufactured in the 90's. While I won't discuss the exact offer I made I will tell you it was in excess of $ 100,000.00. Even though we couldn't come to terms on that one, I asked that they give me a call when the new ship is completed, if it is still available and I haven't purchased something else I would be interested in it.
Back to the balancing act that Mr.Yao, is struggling with. As most everyone knows by know Brantly is financed by a large privately held company in China, who appear to only want to invest the minimun amout of money to maintain the company. While this is better than closing the door, it does not allow for promotion, R&D, or production of completed units on any scale, or replacement parts. For those employees in Texas this has to be a frustrating situation.
I can tell you that the staff that remains at Brantly are doing all they can do to find the parts to support the existing customer base and keep the B2B flying.
So the question has to come up, if the company brought everyone back to work, started the line back up, advertised and promoted the B2B, would they have a viable product, well I think that is a very strong maybe.
As the existing parts supply dries-up they are finding that newly manufactured parts, that are outsourced are costing more than their advertised retail cost. The best example of this is part # 280-7 the Pylon short Shaft, which sold from old inventory for $85.35, [ the last 3 new ones are installed on the ship awaiting finial assembly], last quoted from a new supplier at over $300.00 each, with a 500 unit order required. Not only will this type of increase add greatly to the overall cost of the ship, if this part is not available, that new B2B currently at the end of the line and everyone else, will have to park theirs at 1200 hrs.
If new production were to take place on a large scale, the B2B would have to go head to head with the Schweizer 300 series, and the Robinson R-22. I think it could be successful if the cost could be kept below the R-22
and if a turbo charged engine could be developed like the Enstrom to produce over 200 horsepower.
To determine this a detailed cost analysis would have to be done, again costing alot of money. The company in China has the funds so what are they waiting for. Well it appears they are waiting for the civil aviation market to open up in their home land. Could you imagine the market for the worlds largest population with limited infastructure, a market made for helicopters. But this is China, the worlds largets remaining communist country and all the political problems that go with it. Open civil aviation may never happen. Meanwhile the Brantly waits in limbo.
So should anyone buy a B2B, thats for you to decided. I can tell you that the remaining people at the plant will do all with in their power to keep the company going and the parts flowing.
I'll send my photo's to the web admin. Steve Chenoweth for review and posting.
Just Returned from the Factory
Moderator: Paul Sehorne
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kickstartit
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 1:34 pm
- Location: Tennessee
Steve,
I also have flown the Shweizer and I agree it handles almost the same but you will find the Brantly faster and a better ship that needs less maintenance. There is nothing on the Brantly that cant be reproduced by a machine shop. It sounds like you were looking at the ship they were selling for 130,000 if so it's a deal. Were are you going to find a certified helicopter that has the TBO times the Brantly has. The Brantly has such a great following and a loyal customer base becuase it is the best ship out there. I coudn't find one person who owned one that didn't love it. I hope you don't think to long on it I to have somone enterested in buying a new Brantly. If you ever want to fly with me you are more than welcome I'm always loking for somone to buy the fuel! I'm also in to motorcycle I use to build them in till I sold the company. Good luck
I also have flown the Shweizer and I agree it handles almost the same but you will find the Brantly faster and a better ship that needs less maintenance. There is nothing on the Brantly that cant be reproduced by a machine shop. It sounds like you were looking at the ship they were selling for 130,000 if so it's a deal. Were are you going to find a certified helicopter that has the TBO times the Brantly has. The Brantly has such a great following and a loyal customer base becuase it is the best ship out there. I coudn't find one person who owned one that didn't love it. I hope you don't think to long on it I to have somone enterested in buying a new Brantly. If you ever want to fly with me you are more than welcome I'm always loking for somone to buy the fuel! I'm also in to motorcycle I use to build them in till I sold the company. Good luck
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kickstartit
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 1:34 pm
- Location: Tennessee
TBO
Rotorman
I couldn't agree more. But when I spend money I have to make sure my passion for flying and desire to have a Brantly don't cloud my judgement.
Since you brought up TBO, have you had to rebuild youe engine yet?
The time sheet calls for 1500hr., but Mr. Patrick was telling me the real world feed back he's been getting has been between 500 and 750 hrs.
Do you know what is currently being charged for an overhaul?
I couldn't agree more. But when I spend money I have to make sure my passion for flying and desire to have a Brantly don't cloud my judgement.
Since you brought up TBO, have you had to rebuild youe engine yet?
The time sheet calls for 1500hr., but Mr. Patrick was telling me the real world feed back he's been getting has been between 500 and 750 hrs.
Do you know what is currently being charged for an overhaul?
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Ron Spiker
- Founding Member
- Posts: 530
- Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2003 5:33 pm
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA
- Contact:
Brantly Factory
Hi Kickstartit,
The B2B that you flew, was it the blue and white one? Also, do you know what the factory charges for a demo flight if you are not purchasing a B2B? I live in E. Texas training in Robbies in Houston. I have about 23 hrs and am starting auto training.
Thanks,
Brad
The B2B that you flew, was it the blue and white one? Also, do you know what the factory charges for a demo flight if you are not purchasing a B2B? I live in E. Texas training in Robbies in Houston. I have about 23 hrs and am starting auto training.
Thanks,
Brad
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kickstartit
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 1:34 pm
- Location: Tennessee
Brad;
They didn't charge me for the demo flight, but I don't know what their policy is ? I had been in discussions with them for a couple of months before I drove out there, so they knew I was interested in buying one.
The one I flew in N-9030Q was green with just under 90 hours.
Off of the top of my head I don't remember a blue and white one. I'll look in my photo's and see if I took a picture of one like that.
They did have one painted with a red white and blue american flag theme, it wasn't for sale because it had non FAA approved tinted glass, and some other modifications, so it was registered as experimental. I think they also use it as a test bed. This is the same helicopter they had on disply a few years ago at Heli-Expo in LasVegas.
I returned last night from NH where I purchased a used Enstrom from Sharkey's Helicopter. So it looks like my quest for my first helicopter is over.
Good luck on your flight training, and be careful, it's HOT out there. I was watching the weather and they said it has been 100 or higher in Oak City so far everyday for the month of August.
Steve[/img]
They didn't charge me for the demo flight, but I don't know what their policy is ? I had been in discussions with them for a couple of months before I drove out there, so they knew I was interested in buying one.
The one I flew in N-9030Q was green with just under 90 hours.
Off of the top of my head I don't remember a blue and white one. I'll look in my photo's and see if I took a picture of one like that.
They did have one painted with a red white and blue american flag theme, it wasn't for sale because it had non FAA approved tinted glass, and some other modifications, so it was registered as experimental. I think they also use it as a test bed. This is the same helicopter they had on disply a few years ago at Heli-Expo in LasVegas.
I returned last night from NH where I purchased a used Enstrom from Sharkey's Helicopter. So it looks like my quest for my first helicopter is over.
Good luck on your flight training, and be careful, it's HOT out there. I was watching the weather and they said it has been 100 or higher in Oak City so far everyday for the month of August.
Steve[/img]
Steve,
I would be very interested in knowing how you came to choose an Enstrom over the Brantly B-2B. I'm a big Brantly fan, and hope to own one someday soon, and I'd like to learn your opinion/insights as a person who thoroughly investigated the B-2B, but ultimately purchased another type.
Thank you!
Tom[/i]
I would be very interested in knowing how you came to choose an Enstrom over the Brantly B-2B. I'm a big Brantly fan, and hope to own one someday soon, and I'd like to learn your opinion/insights as a person who thoroughly investigated the B-2B, but ultimately purchased another type.
Thank you!
Tom[/i]
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kickstartit
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 1:34 pm
- Location: Tennessee
Tom,
I almost hate to respond to your question.This site of course, is full of people who love Brantly's, myself included. Nothing would please me more than to see Brantly make a strong come-back but that's something that may happen in the future, if at all. If I could afford to maintain two helicopters I would also have a Brantly, because it is truly a unique, classic design. But I can't keep-up two machines so I had to pick my one and only.
I wanted a type certificated, U.S. made, piston engine helicopter, under current manufacture without any restrictions. This limited me to Brantly, Robinson, Schweizer, and Enstrom.
Brantly: The Brantly just dosen't have a high enough useful payload. Depending on how a B2B is equiped you have less than 600 lbs. I think the one I flew in was 540lbs. If you want to fly with two average, home grown, American males and a full tank of gas,you will be over gross. Plus the other issues I have already discussed.
Schweizer; This is the helicopter I did my training in, and it is built tough, with a landing gear built like a tank. But the 300CB and 300CBi, like the Brantly, is limited to 600 lbs.. Also there is no storage compartment. The 300C has more horsepower and can carry a more useful load, I think around 900 lbs, but still there is no storage.
Robinson; I don't really know enough about the R-22 to discuss it. My concern had to do with the time limit on the complete overhaul. If I bought a good used R-22 with low hours 6 or 8 years old, even if I had plenty of time remaining, in a few years I would have to have a complete rebuild weather it had timed out or not. Most private helicopter pilots fly less than 100 hrs. per year.
Enstrom: The first thing I noticed about the Enstrom was the power. The current turbo charged 280 series produces 225 hp. The F28C-2 I bought produces 205 hp. with a useful load in excess of 700 lbs. It has a landing gear almost a durable as the 300CB. It also has a storage compartment,
and is rated to seat three.
Well I know this was the long way around but that was how I arrived at the Enstrom.
I think the Brantly would be fine if you look at it as the classic it is. You wouldn't try to use a 48 Buick as a daily driver and as long as you respect the Brantly's limitations it could make you a nice helicopter.
Keep'um Flying,
Steve
I almost hate to respond to your question.This site of course, is full of people who love Brantly's, myself included. Nothing would please me more than to see Brantly make a strong come-back but that's something that may happen in the future, if at all. If I could afford to maintain two helicopters I would also have a Brantly, because it is truly a unique, classic design. But I can't keep-up two machines so I had to pick my one and only.
I wanted a type certificated, U.S. made, piston engine helicopter, under current manufacture without any restrictions. This limited me to Brantly, Robinson, Schweizer, and Enstrom.
Brantly: The Brantly just dosen't have a high enough useful payload. Depending on how a B2B is equiped you have less than 600 lbs. I think the one I flew in was 540lbs. If you want to fly with two average, home grown, American males and a full tank of gas,you will be over gross. Plus the other issues I have already discussed.
Schweizer; This is the helicopter I did my training in, and it is built tough, with a landing gear built like a tank. But the 300CB and 300CBi, like the Brantly, is limited to 600 lbs.. Also there is no storage compartment. The 300C has more horsepower and can carry a more useful load, I think around 900 lbs, but still there is no storage.
Robinson; I don't really know enough about the R-22 to discuss it. My concern had to do with the time limit on the complete overhaul. If I bought a good used R-22 with low hours 6 or 8 years old, even if I had plenty of time remaining, in a few years I would have to have a complete rebuild weather it had timed out or not. Most private helicopter pilots fly less than 100 hrs. per year.
Enstrom: The first thing I noticed about the Enstrom was the power. The current turbo charged 280 series produces 225 hp. The F28C-2 I bought produces 205 hp. with a useful load in excess of 700 lbs. It has a landing gear almost a durable as the 300CB. It also has a storage compartment,
and is rated to seat three.
Well I know this was the long way around but that was how I arrived at the Enstrom.
I think the Brantly would be fine if you look at it as the classic it is. You wouldn't try to use a 48 Buick as a daily driver and as long as you respect the Brantly's limitations it could make you a nice helicopter.
Keep'um Flying,
Steve
Steve,
Well stated. No helicopter can be everything to everyone, and you have to pick the one that meets your needs.
I learned a lot from your posts. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with us.
Since you are now a new helicopter owner, I think we could all learn a lot from your experiences as you move forward with your flying. Please stop in and let us know how it's going.
Thanks again.
Tom
Well stated. No helicopter can be everything to everyone, and you have to pick the one that meets your needs.
I learned a lot from your posts. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with us.
Since you are now a new helicopter owner, I think we could all learn a lot from your experiences as you move forward with your flying. Please stop in and let us know how it's going.
Thanks again.
Tom