Thin market and insurance.

[seneca2e]

I know this was discussed before but is insurance still available thru England?

I really wan't one of these but like the other fellow am worried I might not be able to sell it without holding it for years. Any additional comments on this?

Is the factory still actually up and running? Any updates on its viability?

[Steve Chenoweth]

The factory is up and running and is usually able to accommodate most requests for parts. The insurance broker in England turned out to be fraudulent. However, I have added a very helicopter friendly and reliable agent to the resources on the left margin. Just click Insurance under resources.

[N2285U]

I talked to an owner that sold a 2001 B2B last week with 480 TT (listed on Barnstormers.) It sold for $70,000 which is $100,000 less than a new one. He said he was tired of paying $11,000 per year for insurance. I would agree as I only pay $4,000/year to insure a Cessna P210 with $160,000 hull and six seats. I would have a hard time paying $200 per hour for insurance.

[edspilot]

I think you would be suprised to find out that most do not have "hull" coverage. Most people pay cash and just then get liability.

I know not all can do that especially at 65K and up. It all boils down to your experience (hours in rotorcraft) & ratings. I think my max would be 5K I'd be willing to spend on insurance.

Just my $0.02 worth.

edspilot

[seneca2e]

I agree edpilot. 5K would be my upper limit for insurance. At some point you can be insurance poor lol. Actually a lot of the older machines of all types are operated without ANY insurance at all. Sometimes you just gotta roll the dice to do what you want

It is a shame that affordable insuance is not available but it really stems form the fact that a lot of helicopters are damaged and there's no such thing as minor damage to a helicopter. The Enstrom I used to own had a great program thru AirSure that allowed you to purchase affordable insurance if you took check rides by their insurance designated check pilots. Autos to full down were part of it as I recall(at least with the guy I took mine under). Great program and concept.

[Administrator]

I have an Enstrom now, but had not heard about the insurance program througn AirSure. Do you have a contact for this?

Thanks,
Steve

[seneca2e]

Yes I called Enstrom last week and they gave me the number and contact for Airsure. I'm in another location from where the information is but I'll look tonight and post it if I can find it. They said they didn't always beat everyone on price but still did most of the time. The instructor was very good that I took my checks with. When I sold the Enstrom the last thing I did with it was several full down autos from altitude. It is a very safe machine(for a helicopter lol) in my opinion.

[N2285U]

The real problem I have (other than losing $70-100k if I ever want to sell) with buying a new Brantly is the fact that I would never fly a $150,000 aircraft without insurance. I guess everyone has an amount they are willing to risk and $50-70k would be my limit. Figuring 7% as a hull premium (this was my last quote before I sold) puts a new brantly @ $12-$15k per year with hull and liability. I can charter an MD500 or Long Ranger for 20 hours a year for the cost of insurance on a Brantly.

I think Brantly should think out of the box and offer hull insurance (backed by them) for 4-5% of hull value provided the insured is willing to participate in yearly re-current training and services their helicopter with Brantly-approved standards. Brantly could also demand in the policy that they have the first right to repair the helicopter at their facility if there was a claim and the aircraft was repairable.

If they want to sell new helicopters in the USA this is the only way it is going to happen. A price of less than $150,000 is needed as well along with a quieter exhaust if possible.

[Ron Spiker]

...

I think Brantly should think out of the box and offer hull insurance (backed by them) for 4-5% of hull value provided the insured is willing to participate in yearly re-current training and services their helicopter with Brantly-approved standards. Brantly could also demand in the policy that they have the first right to repair the helicopter at their facility if there was a claim and the aircraft was repairable.

If they want to sell new helicopters in the USA this is the only way it is going to happen. A price of less than $150,000 is needed as well along with a quieter exhaust if possible.

Good post N2285U. I agree whole-heartedly with both points.

[seneca2e]

Steve,
Number for Air Sure Enstrom program is 303 526 5300. Contact was Lora Beeher or Bill Bebin. The last names might not be right as I couldn't hardly read my notes lol.

As far as Brantly insurance I think they could be a facilitator with say Air Sure or some other company. Realisticly they could not offer liability directly by maybe hull could be massaged around a bit. Even Robinson does not do that but is aligned with an offshore insurance company (perhaps they own it I don't know).

[SunHelo Mark]

Steve,
Even Robinson does not do that but is aligned with an offshore insurance company (perhaps they own it I don't know).

LOL Frank's brother owns it!

[edspilot]

Robinson has done a great marketing job in that they:

1) Build
2) Sell/Lease
3) Insure (brother's company offshore)
3) Train
4) Repair/Overhaul

Also as I understand it:

The insurance claim repairs must be completed by the factory if you want the best payment structure or an authorized service center. Additionally this allows for scheduled maintaince to be taken to service centers thus directing work to field service centers.

They (robinson) knows that there will be service work for the field centers, insurance preniums for the brother, training dollars for their mandatory factory school, training dollars for the flight training schools, and yes, training dollars for independant CFIs (SFAR 73).

Even the customer has a chance of winning with getting to fly a craft that they can afford.

Certainly a business plan to be copied, cross marketing with your associated companies.

Just my $0.02 worth.

edspilot

[seneca2e]

Good summation there edspilot The trouble with the affiliated insurance company with Robinson is they only pay you for the depreciated value of the helicopter instead of full value. Still most go that route to get considerably better rates. From what I've heard you're looking at maybe 10k say on a R44 vs 25k from some other company. Of course you're talking 300k value helicopters plus or minus a 150k.